5th Congress Debate Liveblog

7:53: That's it. Wow.

7:39: Closing Statements:
Keith Ellison: I'd rather be here with students than anywhere else, I'm missing another event for this. If you can't find hope and optimism and idealism on a college campus, you won't find it anywhere. We need to fight the fear out there. When people make you afraid, they make you less willing to try and to innovate. We have to have a new direction, on Nov. 7th you should make a bold choice for a new direction. Don't just support me because of what I say, but also because of what I've done. I've opposed the war since before it began. I have introduced bills for universal health care and early child education. I've fought for middle class prosperity, a higher minimum wage, and workers rights. I've also worked across the aisle and gotten bills passed. The most important thing is to get people working, not quick fix gimmicks. We don't want people to be afraid of police, either. Choose your hopes, and don't be afraid to help me make a change. I'm Keith Ellison, I've gotta go, but thank you for listening.
Mr. Santana: I'm not running a traditional campaign, I'm not going to make promises to anyone in particular, but I'm fighting for many of the things we've talked about tonight. It's a socialist workers campaign. It's not just leading up to Election Day, it's all throughout the year.
Jay Pond: This election cycle is stranger than it's been in a long time. There's a shift to the left. It's even stranger here in the 5th because it's an open seat for the first time in a long time. Because of that, anything is possible up to and including that you elect the first Green to Congress. On election night, they'll show the red/blue map and we could put a green dot in Minnesota. We can show that the Twin Cities want change and are progressive. Single-payer health care and alternative energy are important. I stood up when the Democratic party was silent and I challenged that silence. Third parties are important, they brought us the labor movement, women's right to vote, social security. Send me to Congress and you'll be proud of my work, I hope you see my passion on the issues. I'm Jay Pond, and I'm the Green Party candidate for Congress.
Tammy Lee: Jay and I have a lot of the same themes, it's a year of election and a year of change. You could make history by sending the first Green to Washington or the first independent congresswoman to Washington. You made history by election Jesse Ventura in 1998. You said you wanted change and you got it. It was about a movement for change, they were fed up with the system. You have a chance to take back the country. This November, you have a critical decision to make. This could be a very closely divided Congress, and I could be the tiebreaking vote. Don't vote your fears and frustrations, vote your hopes and dreams. You can decide your future, if you want affordable schools and health care and a clean environment, I'm your choice. We need to do what's right for the people of the district, not for the parties. People are fed up and ready for change, "if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting." The last time a third party movement succeeded, Abraham Lincoln was elected. We could do that again with me. The power is in your hands. I'm Tammy Lee, independent congresswoman-in-training-wannabe, vote for me for Congress.
Alan Fine: I'm the Republican-endorsed candidate. This is the strangest race I've ever been in and thought I'd ever be in. I don't want to talk about my opponent because he's not here, but I will. I want to tell you that because someone has a D next to their name that they're a good person. This race is all about character. We need to make sure the people representing us have character. I was at Coffman once with some other Jews, and a speaker there was saying that Jews should all be killed. I was there, Keith Ellison was part of that demonstration. Someone who said all Jews should be killed, that they were the root of all evil, was an associate of Keith Ellison's. I have evidence to show that Keith Ellison was a member of the Nation of Islam from his college days up until as late as 2002. He is associated with groups like CAIR. Learn more about CAIR, they're not caring. This isn't about religion or race, it's about someone associated with hate groups. Don't vote for this person.

7:31: One more audience question. Abortion rights?
Jay Pond: I believe it's a woman's right. Women get to choose. Guys protect your seeds, women protect your eggs. We need to protect these things. Best decision makers are individuals. Collectively, we all make the best decision. Still, I don't think abortion is a good thing. To reduce abortion, we need to attack poverty.
Tammy Lee: I am solidly pro-choice as well. I have the endorsement of the Minnesota women's political fund, a pro-choice organization. We also need to talk about contraception, especially emergency contraception. If we want to reduce abortion, we need to improve education and contraception. We also need to help women who want to keep their children, with health care and child care.
Alan Fine: I support a women's right to choose, but I'm very much personally against abortion. I'm divorced, but I thank God that I can raise my son. I'll say this, that I think the issue is one that we talk about personal choices but as individuals we should think about our own lives. The discussion about the sanctity of human life is a good one to have. My generation is the "me" generation, but we need to start thinking collectively about our families and neighborhoods. "Ask not what your country can do for you...", we're an American family.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate answer)
Keith Ellison: I support a women's right to choose. I have fought for the right in the legislature. I fought the 24 hour waiting rule as well as to fund anti-abortion clinics. I also support comprehensive sex education. Kids need to know, that's the best way to prevent abortions. It's a fundamental question of women's equality. We need to remember that we haven't achieved gender equality. That's what's behind my positions on universal health care and the minimum wage, 2/3rds of those affected by a raise in the minimum wage are women.

7:24: Another tuition question. What would make you different in the House from everyone else in funding college education?
Alan Fine: I'm not sure there are any college educators in Congress, they aren't seeing the things that I am. Anyone who gets a college degree is getting much more value than the cost of the degree. I would eliminate tuition if you met certain requirements. Too often we look at only the costs, not the benefits. As a businessman, I look at both.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate answer)
Keith Ellison: As I tried to mention before, I am a big proponent for loan forgiveness for people who work in the public interest. We need to attract people to do things in that field. We also need to help people consolidate loans and lower interest rates. I'm in favor of exploring other options as well. College education must remain affordable because it is so helpful to society. We should make sure that everyone can work their way through college.
Jay Pond: I communicate differently. I went to grad school, got an MBA, but I wanted to communicate through new technologies and went to art school and learned to communicate through video. I love YouTube, go there to see stuff about me. I won't go into Congress as a servant to the parties, but as your representative. I also go without being beholden to money.
Tammy Lee: Jay and I both bring a different sound to Washington. We're both not interested in partisan politics. I bring a fiscally responsible approach. We need to do things with a different style, fiscally responsible, with a balanced budget.. We need to not make big new promises but keep the commitments that we have already made.

7:17: I guess Keith isn't leaving yet. What do you think about the new military commissions act, allowing tribunals and reducing habeas corpus.
Keith Ellison: Thank you for asking, this is one of the most important pieces of legislation in a long time. The U.S. is such a great country because we have a legal framework that allows justice to prevail. We have to keep that. Even people who are against these things need to be able to have a hearing. We can't let terrorists take away our Constitution. We need to oppose this stuff. Look at Japanese internment in WWII. We have to be brave and not give into the fear, to say that America stands for due process and fair trials.
Jay Pond: Habeas corpus is this concept that underlies our entire legal system. That goes back to before Ronald Reagan! This is a radical change, but it's not the only one recently. The ideas of preemptive war or the PATRIOT act are also radical, and they've been supported and not debated by Democrats as well as Republicans. I believe that the suspension of habeas corpus was not only wrong but helps support George Bush. If I am elected I will act to IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT. "IMPEACH GEORGE BUSH!"
Tammy Lee: Why do I have to go after Jay? This president has trampled our rights. There is nothing patriotic about the PATRIOT act. There is nothing patriotic, just like "clear skies" pollutes the air. We shouldn't be torturing people, ever, and even the president doesn't have the ability to usurp the law. Habeas corpus must be given to every citizen, it's an inalienable right. Wiretapping is also wrong. This isn't the Nixon area, we should be focusing on terrorists and not trampling people's rights.
Alan Fine: I remember Nixon! Every president has been vilified when they were in office. We shouldn't try to vilify one side, it doesn't help anything. When you go to Washington, you have to work with everybody. When you use divisive language, you can't get anything done. What's the question? Oh, if suicide bombers came and blew you up you would think wiretapping is okay. I don't think people's rights should be abridged, but we have to keep people safe. We have to preserve rights and protection.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate answer)

7:10: Next question, and after this one Keith Ellison will make a closing statement because he has to leave. What would you do to reduce corruption in Congress?
(Socialist Worker Party candidate: Corruption is inherent to capitalism. Revolution!
Keith Ellison: One of the best ways to end corruption is to vote the incumbent party out of office. Since 1994, there's been a culture of corruption in Washington. Abramoff scandal, Foley scandal, these are serious problems that I'm concerned about. Institute gift bans, move towards public financing and campaign finance reform. We also need to seriously prosecute people who break the law, and we need an attorney general will do this.
Jay Pond: Corruption here is fueled by money. I like to read the Wall Street Journal, that sounds strange as a Green, but I like the journalism and the down-to-earth way that they report the news. They say that there is 48% more money in elections in 2006 than 2004. It's not good to have access for only people who donate, and we're moving in the wrong direction. People understand the shift, though. Now money is moving to Democrats from Republicans, and that's the problem with the two-party system. We need a more pluralistic system, and we can't have that until we get rid of the two-party system. Send me, I am PAC free.
Tammy Lee: Jay is right, the two party system has failed us. Jay and I have that in common, we're not associated with either party, and that frees us. We get to think for ourselves. If you want to end corruption, send someone who you can trust to Washington, someone who won't be tied up in partisanship and is a uniter.
Alan Fine: I want to respond to Jay's answer to the last question. "Private" money is donations from people, we'd be saying no to free money. What's great about democracy is that we can vote the bums out. The key isn't third parties, the key is finding enough people who support you. It is important that we have strong parties, whether they be just two or more.

7:02: When we talk about higher education, we often only talk about tuition. The business school is increasing in size, we're getting a football stadium, and we have a $2 million ad campaign (the clings on the sidewalks). What can we do besides tuition to improve higher education?
Alan Fine: They're building a new building for CSOM, and there are only four classrooms in the building. They're also cutting out a classroom in the current building, and eliminating a parking lot. In all of these things we invest in, I think we should be focusing money on education and research. We really also need to invest in research and I would invest in research over a football stadium any day.
Keith Ellison: Our discussions should include tuition but not stop there. Again, we need loan forgiveness for people working in the public interest. We also need to improve college access. It's a real problem that we're phasing out general college. We need to keep this place accessible to all students. We also should increase investment in things that give us a better, safer world.
Jay Pond: There's too much private interest in our state universities, so we need public universities to be less affected by private companies. We need to get rid of Aramark providing the food, the food is terrible, I don't know how students put up with it. I'd like to see a shift in vendors. We have to get away from the privatization of EVERYTHING in our society.
Tammy Lee: We need to pay teachers well to attract good ones, and we need to put more money into research to improve that. I support stem cell research and I would fund that in Congress.

6:55: First audience question: A couple of bills in the Minnesota House of Representatives authored by Keith Ellison removed the provisions from law to revoke drivers licenses from deadbeat dads and to prosecute false reporting of police brutality. What's the deal?
Tammy Lee: I oppose those. I wouldn't support anything that would make it harder for police to do their jobs.
Alan Fine: My ex-wife is paying child support to me, so it's deadbeat moms too. With regard to deadbeat moms or dads, there are big challenges for people trying to ensure that their children are taken care of. We don't do enough to support law enforcement. Whether you support or oppose the war in Iraq, we must support the soldiers. Thank police officers for serving.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate doesn't answer)
Keith Ellison: Thanks for the question, I want to address this. The best way for deadbeat dads to pay child support is to let them have a job. If they can't get to work, they can't pay their child support. If they lose their licenses, they may still drive. I want people to go to work so they can pay child support. It's a knee-jerk reaction to a complex issue. I want people to be employed so that they can pay their child support. It's also already against the law to falsely report a crime, and police brutality is a crime. We don't need the redundance. This is a personal attack. (He runs out of time)
Jay Pond: We should talk about child support as a gender-balanced issue. Ten years ago we got single moms off the welfare system and told them to go get jobs. Now we see the results of that with increasing crime. Lets start to fix this with some day care. I don't know specifics of the bills, but we live in a society of fear. We need to stop that. The best defense against police brutality is a society where people are in peace and safe and there isn't crime. We need to improve this, and other things improve also.

6:54: Planned questions are over, going to audience questions.

6:47: Should the current minimum wage be changed, what should it be changed to and why?
Jay Pond: The current minimum wage isn't doing good things for people right now. We need livable wage, I have an MBA too but I believe in community based economics. If we have a livable wage in Minnesota it would be about $12 an hours. Many really crappy jobs are the ones that require hard work but are at minimum wage. If we institute livable wage, it keeps money in the community and raises the economic value of our communities.
Tammy Lee: I support raising it. I don't know what the right number is but it is higher than it is now and we need to talk about it in Washington. Too many people having to work two jobs with no health care. We also need to make health care more affordable, and I will do this by de-linking it from the workplace. Too many people work bad jobs because the health care benefits are so important.
Alan Fine: Raising the minimum wage isn't important, what's important is creating good jobs. I've been teaching students to live the American dream, and I want to help people look forward with hope. We can talk about raising the minimum wage but what's most important is creating opportunity. In many places, economic development is terrible and we need to develop those areas.
Keith Ellison: I coauthored a bill in the legislature to raise the minimum wage and we got it passed. I've actually done this, I'm not just talking. We accomplished this and we can accomplish other things. We need to support the right to organize, I support letting people join unions by joining cards. We need to repeal NAFTA and CAFTA and instead of allowing free trade we need to move to fair trade. We also need to make health care a single-payer system like 36 other countries. This is crucial for economic justice.


6:41: What do you see as problems with privately financed elections?
Keith Ellison: I'm such a big fan of fair and clean elections that I was the chief author of the bill in the Minnesota House. We need campaign finance reform and I support publicly funded elections. It's a source of corruption. Why do we have a prescription drug benefit that doesn't allow Medicare to negotiate prices? Because President Bush let pharmaceutical donors write the bill. Same with energy. We need a revolution around campaign finance reform and publicly funded elections. I'm fully in favor.
Jay Pond: If there's anyone who has raised less money than me, it's Mr. Santana. I don't take PAC money because it's ruining our democracy. Everyone spends a lot of time in Washington fundraising, I've seen it. It's a pay-to-play system and it's gotta stop. Send someone to Congress not involved in the money, and that's me. Also, support instant runoff voting.
Tammy Lee: Raising money is the worst part of running, and I also support publicly financed elections. Elections don't work right anymore. We can always improve campaign finance as well, but we all should be following the laws that exist. Keith Ellison hasn't done this, he has a lot of letters of violation about campaign finance.
Alan Fine: I support this as well. But who is supporting campaigns? I have taken almost no PAC money, most of my money is from small donors. Keith Ellison's donations have come from groups like CAIR, a group that has ties to terrorism. I wonder what types of influence the people who are associated with Keith Ellison's campaign have on him.
Socialist Worker Party candidate: I haven't raised a lot of money. I'm a write-in candidate. I'm not going to say I'm going to do all these things for you, but working people and young people need to fight together for the things we need.

6:35: What would you do to reduce dependence on non-renewable energy sources and what should we promote in terms of alternative energy:
(Socialist Worker Party candidate doesn't answer)
Keith Ellison: I've authored bills on this and done a lot, but now I feel that I haven't done enough. We need to tax fossil fuel industries and incentivize and subsidize alternative energy sources. We also need to work on conservation, what we don't use goes towards our environment. Alternative energy helps national security, I don't want any more kids dying over oil. I've been a leader on this in the legislature.
Jay Pond: "As the Green Party candidate, I don't know if we've really thought about this one." (Laughter) I'm happy about renewable energy, this is what we talk about as Green candidates. I grew up in western South Dakota, around the Midwest we have enough energy to power nearly the entire country. The Twin Cities could be for alternative energy what Houston is to oil, a center of innovation. This would improve the economy greatly.
Tammy Lee: This is a big part of my platform. We could take away the $6 billion that goes to the oil industry and give it to alternative energy. This helps the economy, environment, national security. We need to work at the federal level but we also need to do it ourselves. I drive a hybrid, I buy wind power for electricity, we can all be more energy efficient. We can also raise CAFE standards.
Alan Fine: I'm worried about the future, Gov. Pawlenty charged us with making Minnesota a leader in alternative energy and we should. We should also do things in our own lives. It makes sense economically to be efficient with the energy that we use, and there are business incentives for this. What we do here at the U will be big for this also. Climate change is a big problem.

6:29: Does No Child Left Behind work? What steps would you take to fix it?
Alan Fine: NCLB isn't an effective program. I know because I have a son in 6th grade. Any government program that is one-size-fits-all doesn't work. Local community control needs to be what sets curriculum, federal help should be funding and support, not setting tests and curriculum.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate doesn't answer)
Keith Ellison: I've supported repeal of NCLB from the beginning. Doesn't even help to improve scores, just punishes schools. I do support federal grants to states to help reduce class sizes. 40 kids and 25 desks in classes in Minneapolis, we need to fix this right away. We also need to fund special education, federal government needs to live up to its promises. We also need to get kids into early child education. I'm a big supporter of public education.
Jay Pond: EVERY politician says they want to help public education, but support for public education is decreasing. I'm against NCLB, "no child left a dime" is more like it, it makes our teachers test students so that we become testers and not learners. By the time you get to college you may still not know anything, and you need to have a well-rounded base of knowledge. We're the richest nation on the planet, and if we don't fund these things we're in big trouble for the future.
Tammy Lee: We can all agree on this! I also oppose NCLB, it's an unfunded mandate with teacher training and early childhood education. We need to fund early childhood, especially for at-risk kids. I was in Head Start, and that helped give me some preparation for elementary school that I wouldn't have had otherwise. We need to invest in this. Special education is way underfunded, I'm an MBA but you don't have to be to know t

6:22: Should we set timetables for withdrawal from Iraq?
Tammy Lee: We can't do it tomorrow, but I support Rep. Jack Murtha's plan. This helps keep our pledge that we made when we went in. I support a rational plan, the war wasn't executed well and bringing troops home will help make peace in the Middle East.
Alan Fine: Timetables are good but they need to be done right. War is scary, we're in a difficult situation but to pull our troops out would be a mistake. We have to work with other nations, to end war and famine and genocide we can't be the world's policeman. We need to strengthen the U.N. to stop atrocities.
(Socialist Worker Party candidate answer)
Keith Ellison: Bring the troops home now of course means orderly rational withdrawal, but orderly rational withdrawal NOW. National Intelligence Estimates say we are making things worse. President Bush has made a mess of the situation. 600,000 Iraqis have been killed and Donald Rumsfeld has made troops think that they should torture. We need to be a force for peace in the world and we can't be because we're stuck in the "quagmire" of Iraq.
Jay Pond: I've been saying "get out now" for a long time. The Democrats have been silent for three years. I'm proud of Keith Ellison for running on an "out-now" platform but the leadership of the Democrats and the leadership in the House don't feel the same way. Almost everyone in Iraq wants us out now. We're contributing to their insecurity. This month has been the bloodiest month in the war. We need international help to transition them to an economically viable society.


6:17: First question, tuition is high.
Jay Pond: There's been a huge transfer of wealth to the very rich, this is getting worse with every election cycle. It's not just the Republicans who want to cut taxes, but it's everyone on both the federal and state levels. Until we can start taxing the wealthy and corporations, we can't get back to our values of paying for education and health care, and there can't be a level playing field. Too many of you will graduate with a lot of debt, and that's wrong. You deserve better.
Tammy Lee: We need to start subsidizing Stafford student loans. We've made college more and more unaffordable. Everyone will have a debt load that's equivalent to buying a new house. We need to do things at the federal level, increase the Pell Grant program and Post-secondary option (PSEO) plans. Government has to fund the right things.
Alan Fine: As a part of the U, I've learned how important this stuff is. Lots of brainpower here and at other universities. We should divert some of that brainpower towards productivity that will allow people to graduate without debt. There aren't ways that we shouldn't be able to reduce tuition and create jobs at the same time.
Mr. Santana (Socialist): Something about the revolution in 1959 in Cuba. I'm not even going to write his answers unless he says something unusual.
Keith Ellison: I have four children, I've asked them all "what do you want to be?" Whatever it is, and all of you have dreams too, this is the place where those dreams are going to be made, and that must be kept affordable. Double Pell grant, double HOPE scholarships, consolidate student loans, reduce interest, loan forgiveness for those who work in the public interest. Opposed getting rid of General College, fighting for college affordability for everybody.

6:15: I guess there's a fifth candidate, I didn't catch his name but he's a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

6:13: Alan Fine, Republican candidate. Teacher at CSOM for 11 years, student here for undergrad and grad degrees, my family has been a part of the U almost since the university was founded. Tuition was $180 a year when my brother went to school here. I've worked to develop businesses here for 20 years, we need people in Washington to not only balance the budget but also to create opportunities for you as students.

6:11: IP candidate Tammy Lee, country is on the wrong track, we're way too much into debt, and Congress has been irresponsible with outsourcing. As Congresswoman, I won't outsource and will fight for family priorities. We're all for certain things, jobs, environment. I want to put money going to oil companies into alternative energy. It isn't just the right thing to do, but also is an economic good. Strong background in business, been a corporate executive, and have experience in D.C.

6:09: Now it's Jay Pond's turn. He's a Green, he's from SD, he's been here on and off for 8 years, his experiences here are "interesting", he loves the progressiveness in Mpls, he grew up as a Democrat, loved McGovern. Now, both parties have gone to the right, third strike against the Democrats was welfare reform under Bill Clinton. Talking about the Green Party, he saw their values and decided to switch. Support has gone from the middle class to the very rich, the major parties aren't meeting our needs, two candidates here outside the two party system.

6:07: Keith Ellison is delivering his opening statement. He says he is connected with MPIRG. I'm originally from Detroit, his wife, his kids, he went here for law school, he has taught here as an adjunct professor, as well as at Hamline and Macalester. He is all for low tuition and he has done so as a state representative. He wants to double federal scholarships. He has been a lawyer at a public interest law firm.

6:06: The moderator is going over the rules.

6:05: The debate's starting. There are a lot more people here than last night, especially a lot more students. Oh, and I see a couple of UDFLers here now.

6:03: The candidates are all sitting down and it looks like we're about to begin.

5:59: I'm about to begin liveblogging the debate between Keith Ellison, Jay Pond, Tammy Lee, and Alan Fine, all candidates for Congress in the 5th Congressional District. It looks like all the candidates are here but people are still milling around. I don't see any UDFLers (again!)

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